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Old Apr 03, 2006, 10:46 PM // 22:46   #21
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GW is a competative game. If you don't like elitest you never have to enter the competetive world.
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Old Apr 03, 2006, 11:12 PM // 23:12   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makkert
Yes, that hate towards other continents in ToA is mindboggling. I truely wonder if those that shout such things have an iQ higher then their shoesize.
Quoted for truth ... and at work we call this a "Room Temperature iQ"
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Old Apr 03, 2006, 11:20 PM // 23:20   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celios
I've been in guilds that hardly ever touched PvP and I've been in very PvP-heavy ones. I loved both, though obviously for different reasons.

I don't know what you mean by "best" PvE guild, but I can tell you right now that a decent PvP guild will find PvE ridiculously easy. It's basically like playing a predictable, retarded build that you can, by definition, anticipate and counter WAY ahead of time; you don't need to account for every single possibility, you just find a weakness and exploit it to ridiculous lengths.
Huh? Well not sure how you can be the person who wrote both of those... but I guess... um... No, I am confused.

As for your assertions... I have watched decent PvP guilds get totally wiped in missions. I guess you don't understand why people like the game w/o PvP.

I understand both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celios
The only problem is that everyone and their grandma will return to smurfing again. I don't see why anyone needs a pat on the back for being "best of the 3rd best" when they can just as easily say "We're top 300", give themselves a pat on the back and realize they're happy for getting as far as they did.
I guess you don't follow any sports at the high school, college, or professional levels. If you did you would understand the concept. Let me break it down for you...
  • Div I = Professionals (similar to Major League Baseball, National Football League). In GW terms this would be people who play, play and play. They play no (or few) other games and devote all their time to PvP. They enjoy the competition.
  • Div II = Semi-Pro(Arean Football). In GW terms these would be people who play no (or few) other games, but real life distractions does not allow them to play as often as the people above. The don't lack skill, the lack the time to practice and test.
  • Div II = Amateurs (Thursday Softball Leagues). In GW terms these people either have less understanding of the game (skill), play several other games, or have too many real life distractions to develop their skills.

My point with this structure is to allow people in all three groups to play and enjoy the game. This in turn keeps more people interested and paying $$$ to Anet for new campaigns. The Division I people get all the championships and extra crap, but the others don't get discouraged by not being able to compete. Regardless of your feelings -- THAT helps the game and community.

As far as your comment about smurfing... um... NO you could not be more wrong. Why would a good team smurf as a Div III or II team... they would NEVER be able to play other good teams because they are not in the same division... there would be NO benefit to smurfing. Div I teams could have "minor" teams in the Div II or Div III that would help them develop new players though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celios
If PvE guilds end up owning outposts, it will be through nothing but grind or disinterest on the competitive ones' part.
That will certainly be their excuse now won't it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celios
When a guild has a rep, it's usually because they deserve one. You can't just say "we deserve recognition" if you aren't doing anything to earn it.
CLUE: not all reps are earned through PvP play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celios
Again, no offense intended...
Sorry... when people say that they know they are being offensive... and you were. I may have come off a bit harsh on PvP, but I truly think the game could be improved.

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Originally Posted by Celios
That doesn't mean I or most competitive players look down on anyone
Could have fooled me.
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Old Apr 03, 2006, 11:23 PM // 23:23   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Iowerth
Quoted for truth ... and at work we call this a "Room Temperature iQ"
I prefer the term twelve o' clock flashers.
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Old Apr 03, 2006, 11:27 PM // 23:27   #25
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I like burritos. Burritos are good. And cheesy. Which restaraunt makes the "top burrito"? It sounds like it would be a very tasty burrito.

Mmmmm.... burritos.
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Old Apr 04, 2006, 12:01 AM // 00:01   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker
Huh? Well not sure how you can be the person who wrote both of those... but I guess... um... No, I am confused.
It was my impression that you were defining a "good" PvE guild in a different manner than how I define them. My statements were independent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker
As for your assertions... I have watched decent PvP guilds get totally wiped in missions. I guess you don't understand why people like the game w/o PvP.

I understand both.
They are completely different critters so, as I've said, I can enjoy PvE. When I play one or the other I tend to do so exclusively, so it's not like I'm getting a quick 'fix' then going back. The simple fact of the matter is that PvE is simple compared to any PvP of consequence. I'm not sure what 'decent' guilds you saw get wiped out, but whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker
I guess you don't follow any sports at the high school, college, or professional levels. If you did you would understand the concept. Let me break it down for you...
I understand the concept of divisons, you should understand why they don't work on the videogame level. With NO standards to meet or ANY form of quality control, every division will be so mixed up you might as well not have them. A great deal of these PvP-mediocre groups are like having a 100 person sports team, 60% of them playing at the juniors level, 15% at the pro and 25% with amateur-level skill, then randomly combining them and hoping that the end result will make any consistent sense. Newsflash: it won't. And this is not including the deliberate sabotage of the division system via the aforementioned smurfing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker
As far as your comment about smurfing... um... NO you could not be more wrong. Why would a good team smurf as a Div III or II team... they would NEVER be able to play other good teams because they are not in the same division... there would be NO benefit to smurfing. Div I teams could have "minor" teams in the Div II or Div III that would help them develop new players though.
rofl, it's pretty obvious you rarely if ever played GvG prior to the smurfing nerf. A lot of teams don't give a crap about playing an opponent who has a fair shot at beating them, and if you were active prior to that nerf you would know that. There were TONS of smurf guilds from every conceivable team at the r1000-2000 level just for the sake of abusing some newbie groups (and, obviously, easy faction.) If you introduce divisions you will simply be providing incentive for smurfing to make a resurgence. At the end of the day, you'll just see the same guild in first place in EVERY division, just under different names. That's the nature of the internet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker
That will certainly be their excuse now won't it.
By your own admission PvE players aren't in the same class as avid PvPers in terms of PvP. I don't see why you're taking an obvious chain of logic and making it into some kind of insult to get offended about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker
CLUE: not all reps are earned through PvP play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker
The sad things is, and I have expressed this opinion before, is that there is no way for the non-top 100 guilds to receive recognition...
Indeed, and you're calling ME on contradicting myself? Stop trying to read insults into my statements or you'll just run yourself into corners trying to defend yourself against some imaginary argument I care little about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker
Sorry... when people say that they know they are being offensive... and you were. I may have come off a bit harsh on PvP, but I truly think the game could be improved.
Wow, you have issues with reading a statement and declaring that it was intended to mean the opposite. Don't be afraid to take things at face value once in a while

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker
Could have fooled me.
Um, okay? I don't care how other people spend their time and I don't care what you do with your guild. I certainly don't know you or your gang well enough (i.e. at all) to look down on you.
Last edited by Celios; Apr 04, 2006 at 12:04 AM // 00:04..
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Old Apr 04, 2006, 04:03 AM // 04:03   #27
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Celios:

I have seen no credible evidence from you that a division format would not work and until I do I will assume it your own opinion. I think it can be done with GW... I have seen it done with FPS games and believe it could carry over.

Beyond that if you meant no insult that is fine.

I apparently did not explain what I see a PvE guild as... PvE players are not in the same class as PvP players for PvP... nor are PvP players in PvE players class for PvE.

I will try to take you at face value from now on... If you want to continue the discussion then please bring facts to the table... I will try to do the same. As I have said above I have seen leagues work in FPS games... I will look to see if the league is still working.
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Old Apr 04, 2006, 05:14 AM // 05:14   #28
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Maybe I seemed a bit too enthusiastic there, apologies if you took offense.

I suppose my point is that GW is a completely different critter from an FPS game with an external league system (I'm assuming you mean something like TWL or CAL.) The latter enforce against smurfing (banning offenders) while GW, for all intents and purposes, is a sandbox. I don't know how much GvG you played during the period I was referring to, but I can tell you that smurfing was a very real problem - ANET even had to step in finally and nerf faction to curtail the practise. All that was just for unlocks. If people see a chance to get to the top of a league, or better yet, nab some prizes, I can guarantee you we'd see it on an epidemic scale again.
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